So, recently, a good friend of mine was talking about how she was talking to a good friend about a problem and how said friend was really great about not judging her. However, this raised a question - what constitutes not judging someone? Is it not forming an opinion about someone's actions/situation, or simply doing a good job of masking said opinion?
I believe (correct me if I'm wrong), therapists and various other professionals are trained to hide any opinions or judgments from their clients. However, I've always thought 'man, I wonder what goes through their heads after some of their sessions'.
That, and is it really possible to not form an opinion on someone's actions, especially in some extreme situations? Yeah, there's that whole 'walk a mile in someone's shoes' bit, but does ANYONE actually do that? Is it possible to even prevent your mind from forming an opinion - even if you don't mean to, isn't it a somewhat semi-conscious snap reaction in the first place?
I know a lot of people who claim they don't judge - however, I do know from talking to them about various other people that they do. They just make a point of not doing it to the person's face.
What constitutes not judging someone? Is it not forming an opinion, or simply not expressing it? Is it possible to not form an opinion? Is there anywhere we can actually go to not be judged?
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As I get older I try not to judge people as much, you never know what someone is going through.
Judging implies placing a moral value to the actions. "That is wrong / right."
I think having an opinion is different from judging someone. Everyone will develop an opinion; it's how you express it that is the most important part, especially when talking about tough issues with friends. I say listen first, offer advice if they want it, and your opinion if they ask it. I try to keep an open mind about things. I wouldn't advise lying to someone, but it's a matter of tact. Maybe a person just wants to vent and doesn't really need to hear opinions.
I have a couple more thoughts on this...
I think there's a difference between making fair assumptions, making ethical judgments and making unfair or quick opinions. However, these are often lumped into the same categories.
If a woman states that she has had 10 sexual partners and not used any sort of protection, it would be unfair to assume that she is promiscuous. She could have been raped by 10 men. One doesn't have the background to make that assumption.
If this same woman was college age and said these were actually all short term relationships she had in college with other college students, it would not be judgmental to say she likely has been exposed to a sexually transmitted disease. With 20-25% of college students having an STD, there is a between a 90% and 95% chance that this woman has been exposed to one.
If this same women in the above paragraph claimed to be a Christian that believed in the canonical texts of the Bible, it would be fair to judge her actions to be hypocritical, because her actions contradict a set of values she has claimed to have.
So when Emily says she doesn't judge people, I think she means that she's not quick to assume, or make opinions without the facts, both good things.
The problem with our culture, in my opinion, is that we aren't willing to subject ourselves to moral or logical evaluation. People just want to do whatever they want, when they want, regardless if it is unwise, unhealthy or immoral.
Why should you care? So your friend doesn't leave his 9 year old daughter in his car for 10 hours when it is 13 degrees outside, which causes her fingers to get amputated due to frostbite, all because nobody wanted to 'judge him' or beg him to change his destructive behavior.
(Book: The Ragamuffin Gospel by Brennan Manning.)
Matt, couple things...
1) Thanks for the STD statistic. It made me miss college.
2) I've made MANY "unwise" and "unhealthy" decisions in my life, one being sledding down my apartment stairs in college, but just because I've screwed up, doesn't mean I'm any less of a human being than you, Mr. Perfect. I make mistakes. And that's not always a bad thing. All of my mistakes have shaped who I am and I wouldn't be the same person if I didn't make them. I just try not to make the SAME mistake over again.
It doesn't matter if we're promiscuous or if we've been exposed to an STD or if our child has lost a few fingers in the car, God loves us all the same!! After all, he made us, didn't he?!?
I'm a little confused by Emily's comments.
I'll make a summary of my points:
There's a difference between making assumptions without all the facts, statistical analysis, and ethical judgments based on a set of moral beliefs.
First, I took a statement and made an assumption, and explained how that statement could imply multiple possibilities. This is why making quick assumptions on limited information is not wise. People who make quick assumptions are often deemed to be "judgmental".
Next, I performed mathematics. I took the likelihood of an event not happening (having a partner without an STD, 80%) and put it to the power of the number of events (10), which yielded the likelihood of the event not occurring (10.7%). I then subtracted it from 100% which gave me confidence to suggesting with roughly 90% likelihood an event has occurred. This isn't being judgmental, this is mathematics.
Finally, I took an example of a person who states that they have a set of values and beliefs, but does something that contradicts them. I evaluated that person's actions based on their own set of moral / ethical guidelines, not something arbitrary that I created.
So... with that said, I got a weird personal attack from Emily. I'm far from perfect, I've made a ton of mistakes myself. As a matter of fact, one of my core beliefs is that everyone makes mistakes, and God, in His goodness can forgive each of us. That's part of the human condition. There are definitely some life lessons that can be learned the "hard way". However, there are others that don't need to be learned through personal experience. Just because I learned some of my life lessons through poor choices doesn't mean I'd encourage a friend to make the same ones. On the contrary - I'd hope my experiences could prevent people I care about from making the mistakes I made.
For example, say you have a family member, who, every time it started to lightning, erected a large steel structure and held on to it until the storm passed. Furthermore, lets say that this was a popular thing to do - a rite of passage even.
If you don't plead with this friend of yours to not do this, and explain that that they're doing something dangerous that could kill them or cause irreversible harm, you do not love them. You clearly value 'not wanting things to get complicated' more than you value the friend's well-being.
Case in point: Every single person with a tiny grain of common decency would stop a stranger from doing this foolish and dangerous act, but curiously some people would be less likely to stop someone they 'care about' from doing the same thing! This is cruel!
The problem, of course, is that our culture says that people have the right to do whatever they want and good friends don't butt in, don't judge, and always support their choices, even bad choices.
I, for one, am incredibly grateful for my closest friends that have butted in, questioned my motives before I almost made poor choices, and do so out of genuine love for me. Those are real friends! Real friends care enough to risk the friendship for the well being of the friend.
Getting those close friends takes a lot of work. You need to be willing to say, "Here's everything that I'm doing in my life, what do you think about it?" or "I did something that makes me feel morally queasy at best, and sinful at worst. What do you think about it?"
Finally, it would be helpful for you, Emily, to read the link about how the girl lost a few fingers(and went completely deaf). It's because her alcoholic dad left her in the car in below freezing temperatures while he went into the bar for 10 hours and caught up with some army buddies.
It matters a great deal to her that nobody wanted to 'judge' her daddy and get him help for his alcoholism sooner than 62 years of age. That was my point.
Wtf is that "Ragamuffin Gospel" about? Nowhere in that story did I find anything remotely resembling a true story. Honestly, I laughed. It was terribly written and the author is, quite honestly, less than credible. But that's because I look for perspectives other than the "Christ solves everything and I'm a bad person because I don't live up to Christ" one.
It seems like it's more of an allegory with a lot of biblical references. A personal recollection, I guess.
If you're going to cite a story, at least find a story and not one couched in Christian terminology and preaching a very specific viewpoint.
Newsflash: a lot of people are not Christian and do not find long stories about the redeeming power of Christ compelling, relevant, or worthy of discussion.
Regarding the story: Why didn't the girl think to get out of the car and go find her dad? You'd think a 9 year old would be smart enough to do that.
By the way, I did a quick check up to see if frostbite can cause hearing loss.
It can't. Frostbite affects the surface tissues of the ear. Common causes of hearing loss in children include:
* Acoustic trauma such as from explosions, fireworks, gunfire, rock concerts, and earphones
* Barotrauma (differences in pressure)
* Skull fracture (temporal bone)
* Traumatic perforation of the eardrum
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003044.htm
Unless the girl was sky diving or under water recently, I highly doubt that sitting in a cold car made her lose her hearing. Nice try though!
Ragamuffin Gospel is one of about a dozen published books by Brennan Manning. It's a blend of personal autobiography and retold stories. Brennan is a recovered alcoholic, and the link I provided was an excerpt from one chapter of the book. The story about the man who left his daughter in the car is something Brennan witnessed first hand as a member of the alcoholics' recovery group. While I'm not a doctor, I don't find it far-fetched that a child sitting in a car when it's twenty degrees below freezing for 10 hours could cause irreparable harm. I'm not sure if the girl was locked in the car, fell asleep, or lost her hearing due to poor medicine in the 1970's amputating her outer ears. I wasn't there and don't have all the details, just the recollection of this well-published author.
Regardless, even if the story is completely fabricated, I hope we can agree the ramifications of alcoholism are horrible. I have a couple of friends that are struggling with alcoholism right now. They need tough love, a lot of grace, and real friends that will keep them accountable and on the painfully slow (but achievable!) path of progress. That's the only point I really wanted to make - good friends don't sit idly by and let their friends make bad choices or wallow in addictions and problems they can't handle on their own. That's something people do to their enemies!
I couldn't agree more that, "Christ solves everything and I'm a bad person because I don't live up to Christ" is a really uncompelling perspective. I'd humbly suggest that Biblically-based Christian theology offers a different perspective that the one you're inferring, but it's not really productive to have that sort of discussion over a keyboard. For me personally, I found Ragamuffin Gospel, (which I read cover to cover), had among the most compelling perspectives about God that I've read.
I didn't intend to start a debate about theology, I just wanted to encourage others to really evaluate what it means to be a good friend. Sometimes it means stepping beyond what's comfortable. It isn't judging- it's caring.
Hi all, I just want to chime in here on the original point of judgement and not any of the God stuff.
Judgement is quite plainly, a persons intellectual or instinctual reaction to observed situations within or outside themselves. Judgements can be good and judgements can be bad; that does not however mean that judgements are necessarily in themselves right or wrong. I can make a judgement that my friend's boyfriend is a nice guy or a bad guy based on what I observe and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. My judgement is based on what I've observed or been told about the situation. Do I have to express my judgement? That's dependent on the severity of the nature of what I've observed and what actions are appropriate to take. Yes I will say something in the instance of the baby in a freezing car or if my friend is in an abusive situation. My judgement is that those people deserve better and being a good person, friend, or citizen is taking action to rectify it. I've been in the situation, and had a friend stop speaking to me as a result; she didnt think her safety was as important as I did. I'll live. And I'll live knowing that in my judgement, I did what I thought was best for that baby or that friend. But that's my opinion. So who knows if I was right or wrong. In the end, that friend and I agreed to disagree but I'll do exactly the same thing all over again.
Judgement is what distinquishes us from other animals. I make a judgement each day that in order for me to make the money I want, I need to get up and go to work even if it makes me unhappy. Is that a good judgement? Is that a bad judgement? I dunno. But it is a judgement.
Likewise and I've told my friends this often and freely. I am a judgemental person. Those of you who gasp and say "oh my, how can you judge others?" have no idea that judgements are what help define our world for ourselves. I make a judgement that I prefer Jif over Skippy, that I'd rather have a nice kitchen over a fireplace, that white shoes are better worn in the spring than the winter, that a scarf is appropriate on a 15 degree day, that its a good idea to take my phone with me when I walk the dog at 5:30 in the morning and a host of other judgements each day. And I make those judgements because they help me safely navigate my world, create benchmarks for myself, and achieve growth.
Friendship is about sharing. I share with the people I love. Loving a person means taking the good along with the bad and that includes the criticisms, critiques, and judgements knowing that a good friend isn't telling you things you dont want to hear to hurt or upset you but to open themselves and their concerns for you up to you. i dont want the friend who goes along with whatever I say without argument. Quite plainly, I've done some dumb shit in my life and I've been lucky to have friends who called me on it and made sure I understood the severity of my stupidity. Thank God too because they've taught me along the way and made me a better person.
So yes, I'm judgemental. I make judgements that are positive and judgements that are negative. Those positive and negatives could be right or wrong. When appropriate I let the people I love know those judgements. I'm a good friend (as told to me by my friends). I'm honest. I make judgements. Everyone does. If you don't, you aren't invested in life.
You're reading this post right now and making a judgement? Aren't you?
By the number of responses to Jaime's post, I have to say everyone has judgements and no one here is scared to freely speak them.
My two cents.
Don't confuse judgements with opinions. I have plenty of opinions and preferences based on what I like and don't like. I think it's fine that people have opinions. I also think that getting up and going to work is a choice, not a judgement. I make the choice to work because I need money. I don't choose to work because I think it's right. We're talking about people here, not products. Life is about choices, not judgments. Maybe it's a semantics issue, but I feel that judgment is wrapped up in terms of right or wrong, and I don't see a whole lot of right or wrong in preferring one thing over another.
Recently, a family member decided to express their 'judgment' that they thought I had gained weight and that I should try to be healthier. I was offended because: 1. I disagreed with the person. Only I know what size I wear and it has not changed significantly. 2. I did not ask this person whether they thought I had gained weight or not. 3. I exercise as much as I can and I try to eat as healthily as possible.
In regards to people with serious problems, such as alcohol or drug abuse or possibly suicidal behavior: I guess that's why that TV show "Intervention" is so popular. I don't think a single person should take it upon themselves to try to 'rescue' someone. The first step to recovery is to admit that you have a problem. Thankfully, I have never had to deal with a situation like that, but if I did, I would probably try to enlist the help of a group of people and perhaps trained professionals. And that is all I will say on this matter.
I happen to think opinions are the basis of judgements and I guess this is where I defer. Opinions are based on a persons thoughts about a certain matter are they not? So are judgements. An opinion involves a judgement regardless if the opinion is positive or negative or if its even expressed.
Regarding work, it is an example of an action carried out after a person makes an intellectual or instinctual observation based on internal or external factors. Most people makes a judgement that they need to work to have money, this judgement precedes the choice (which you've brought up) they make.
I guess this all boils down to whether you'd rather couch words and actions in friendly or unfriendly words. "Judgement" is as Heidi Klum would say, "is out" and opinion, it seems is in.
For my part, I've appreciated watching this discussion develop, however I'm sticking to my original and plainly stated response that "Judgements can be good and judgements can be bad; that does not however mean that judgements are necessarily in themselves right or wrong." I dont believe a jar of Skippy will kill me (i.e. the worst judgement) however I dont want it in my house and would be truly upset to have the substitute. That's not an opinion; that's my judgement on Skippy.
Thanks all,
Hmm. Let's see. There have been a lot of different points brought up here.
I guess my opinion is everyone judges. And no one wants to be judged. However, we all, on occasion, need to turn to someone. Does it matter more that the person doesn't judge us, or that he or she simply keeps the judgment to him or herself? Is having someone not judge us even possible?
it depends...do you like Jif or Skippy? LOL.
Does it matter more that the person doesn't judge us, or that he or she simply keeps the judgment to him or herself?
I prefer open lines of communication with my friends and family. I've had both tell me some pretty disagreeable things about myself, things that quite honestly hurt at the time, but benefitted me in the long run. I was told years ago, I was too judgemental. I learned to temper my judgements with understanding. I've been told in the past that I was rigid, and have become more flexible with my time and my thoughts. I've been able to become a better person because of those judgements and how I internalized them.
Is having someone not judge us even possible? I dont believe it is but that's just my opinion.
is it wrong that this is turning me on?!?!
please don't judge.
LOL. Emily. LOL.
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