My good and long time friend Matt wrote a comment in response - scroll down on the above link to see it. I'd like to debate some interesting points he brought up.
He asked the question - is this really a broken system that needs to be fixed?
My thoughts - is it a broken system? In some ways, yes. Can it be fixed? That's a more complicated question.
Here's the main dilemma for women that I see in the old fashioned system - it's a lot about sitting around and waiting to be picked by a man; it's not the mutual selection process I think dating, ideally, should be.
Matt (and other men) will probably argue here that it is a mutual selection process - women can say no to being asked out, marriage proposals, etc. - they have a choice in the matter. Also, there's the point that having to be the one putting it all out there and asking another out, wearing one's heart on one's sleeve, having to face rejection - it's no picnic in the park for a guy at times.
However - let's look at it for a girl - what is she supposed to do if there's a guy she likes (we have thoughts, feelings, attractions and preferences too) - if he isn't asking her out, is she supposed to sit there silently and assume if he wanted her, he'd say so? What if he is shy? How come men can go after whom they want but women can't? Isn't this system all about sitting and waiting to be picked? Isn't there some old truism the importance of taking action to get what one wants?
So, the system has evolved (perhaps) - somewhere somehow it suddenly became acceptable for women to pursue men - and it started happening. Also, it suddenly became acceptable for women to casually sleep with men they might not be in a serious relationship with, to live with their boyfriends without being married, etc.
Now, I have often crudely stated that the modern woman can fuck anyone she wants - but ultimately she has only fucked herself. I think one of the biggest perks of monogamy, for men, was physical intimacy - however, now men can get easily find a one night stand in a bar - men can get some of the best perks of a relationship without one.
Also, with a lot of couples living together and basically having all the perks of a marriage (minus the legal technicalities) - what's the motivation to take an extra step and tie the knot? I've actually heard stories of couples who have decided to tie the knot because one person in the relationship has lost a job and needs health insurance - that's pretty far from romantic, in my book. I think women - generally speaking - have more enthusiasm for tying the knot - but what's a woman to do other than sit and wait for a proposal from her man?
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there aren't a good amount of men out there who still value monogamy, relationships and marriage - I know they're still out there. However, as the dating system has evolved over the past 40 or 50 years, are women any better off? In romantic relationships between men and women - are women still sitting and waiting on men to act? (<--I'd like to refer to this line as a "Carrie Bradshawism".)
Matt (and others) - I expect a response.
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2 comments:
Jaime,
As I reread my comment to your original post, when I was referring to a broken system, I didn't mean I'm against women asking men our on dates, this part was not written clearly.
My main focus is on the title of the post, namely the "thing that hasn't changed"... men proposing marriage. Women are indeed, "waiting on the man's schedule."
I understand the argument from a logic perspective, "women have an unfair cultural limitation - they must wait for the man to take the action of proposing marriage."
Again, my question: Even if it was socially acceptable, that is, if one could chose to propose or be proposed to, don't women want to be wooed, pursued and cherished (i.e. romantically proposed to?)
Doesn't having the man you're going to spend the rest of your life with buy a beautiful ring and prepare a hopelessly romantic way to propose, put some butterflies in your stomach, make you smile from ear to ear, daydream a bit?
I don't know much about other couples, but marriage is typically discussed before a proposal in some form. Rings aren't bought without some sort of a conversation. If you have a dream hope and desire (marriage) and the person you're with doesn't share it, you're in an incompatible relationship. FIND SOMEONE ELSE!
I also want to comment on the "perks" of marriage...
Marriage to me, from a Christian perspective, was created by God and is the joining of two into one. Two families, two sets of life experiences, and yes, two bodies (sex). Marriage is the lifelong commitment by man and woman to the welfare of each other.
This lifelong commitment, and the way it manifests itself, is the biggest "perk". I am confused when I see you say, "couples living together and basically having all the perks of a marriage".
I read that sentence as, "When you're living together uncommitted, you basically get all the commitment, but without the commitment!"
Living with a person outside of marriage doesn't have any real "perks" outside of reduced expenses and proximity.
Because marriage is a lifelong commitment, my wife has a very vested interest in making sure that my character is constantly improving, and I have an equally vested interest in her. I want to see her, over our lifetime, become someone who is able to grow as a person, love God more and reach and impact the lives of others. Her goals for my life are the same.
Marriage means we can start a family together and be completely committed to raising our children and teaching them to grow to love God and impact the world. Barring tragedy, I know that I will have a helper to raise children until they are adults. I don’t have to do this alone. I can model loving relationships to my children, and have them hopefully grow to be better people than my wife and me.
Because of the vows I made with my wife before my friends, family and God, I know that if I accidentally total our car (worse), I lose my job (poorer) or am stuck with cancer (sickness) I have someone that will still love and cherish me in spite of my choices or circumstances. Because I love my wife, I have a very vested interest in trying to avoid these hardships. Since I made this vows in front of witnesses, they will hold me accountable.
Loving someone is a choice, not a feeling. There are lots of times where I do things that are very unlikeable (often worse!) but because my wife has committed to loving me, I know that through asking for forgiveness and reconciling, our relationship will endure. This is, of course, a reciprocal promise.
Marriage is a lot more than a piece of paper, double income and easily accessible sex. Our culture has just tried to dilute it down to that.
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